From 바카라게임 this is Let's Talk Cini presented by Western and Southern Financial Group. Put our financial strength behind you. Hello everyone, I'm Curtis Fuller, and welcome to Let's Talkensi. Today, *** conversation with *** person who is no stranger to our show. He understands the trauma of gun violence and the impact it has on families, but he's chosen to push past his own pain to help others, and please welcome to the show once again. Pastor Jackie Jackson, it's good to see you. You as well, Curtis. Thank you again for having me. Yeah, let's start with the most current situation. I think the last time you were here, uh, sadly your grandson had been shot and killed. um, your, your son had been shot *** few months earlier. Just recently, the person who shot him. was in court. Give us an update on, on that case and where things stand. So I'm gonna tell you after. What we had that was different than *** lot of people who faced gun violence. After the shooting, which was December 26th, the day after Christmas in 2023, when the police arrived, my son. Um, Rebecca, his, his sweetheart and Brandon, who was the gunman, they were in the street fighting for the gun. This is after my son had been shot twice through the stomach out the back and, and grazed on the shoulder. So unlike *** lot of families, the perpetrator was caught right then, but it was *** long year of going through *** court battle. Um, Brandon wanted this to be self-defense, although he came to my son and Becky's house. To pick up his daughter, but he came with *** gun, told not to come in the yard, but he came, told not to come on the porch, and he still came, spit in her face, and so *** fight broke out between him and my son and he shot my son so it was *** long court battle. I don't know how you get self defense out of that. um, I don't know how I don't know how that works, but after *** long court battle, um, last. On the 19th of February he was sentenced. Brandon Lundy was sentenced. I'm not happy with the sentence. I'm in fact not happy doesn't even even begin to express. I strongly disagree with the sentence. He was charged with attempted murder and two felonious assaults. The judge decided that and he said, I don't think he meant to kill him, and he wouldn't even accept felonious assault, so he dropped the charge down to. Aggravated assault which carries 66 to 18 months but the the the saving grace for us us that he had *** gun spec because listening to the judge, the judge sounded like he was ready to give this man probation and I think that's where we're we gotta stop, we gotta stop turning shooters back out in the street that purposely go to harm someone. So 3 years, 9 months, I didn't like it. My son wasn't happy with it, but you know my son looked at me and it's like, Pop, OK, I, I can deal with it. I'm gonna tell you when we talked before, I said I wasn't gonna see it, but I'm gonna say it because it's it's it. The anger that welled up in me was so strong that I wanted to figure, OK, you won't do justice, I'll do justice and I wore my I had my collar on and that was the thing because it's there so if you wear *** collar ministry collar, you know sometimes you touch because it's there and that's something that keeps me grounded remind me that I'm God's and I don't have the, I don't have the liberty to do. Just what my mind may try to enemy may try to get me to do, but we're not happy with the verdict that that is ridiculous that this man brought *** gun to pick up his daughter. You came with *** weapon. You came warning trouble now him and my son had never had like any issues which was talked about in court by my son, by Rebecca, and by Brandon, the shooter. But you came with this gun and you came up and you even even thought he was gonna push past my son to go inside their house, not his house. You could wait on your daughter in the car, so it's, it's, we're, we're blessed more than so many families because there are families who their loved one was shot or murdered 50 years ago and they're still waiting for justice so we did get *** measure of justice but. I so strongly disagree with the, with, with the judge's verdict and had it not been that gun specification which gave him 3 years mandatory, he probably would have gave him probation. So he just, instead of doing the 18 months. That he should have given him since he reduced it down to that from attempted murder and felonious assault, he just split it down the middle and gave him 9. I wanted to start there because I I know the emotion that you have we've talked about it and I wanted people. To hear that from you because while I started out talking about how you push past the pain and and you have as people will will hear if they don't know your story but this is real and it it still impacts people in different ways it's impacting your family and you're human and so no matter how much you do out in the community when you heard that verdict. Uh, as you said, you know, the emotion just welled up in you and, and that's real, and people need to hear that. Well, you know, pushing past the pain or, or pain, turning your pain to purpose, that's *** process, right? It's not that it happens and then you go and you click *** button or you flip *** switch, so I was able, I'm still not happy with it, but obviously the shock of it. Right after waiting over *** year for this to take place really got to me, um. By the grace of God and and I give God the glory, you know, because of what my mind may what go through that human part of me, there's still the other part and that's my heart and that's and that's God who I serve and so that has an effect on my actions. Let's take *** break and then we'll come back and talk about another case still pending because uh as I said he lost his grandson in the summer last summer and that case is still unsolved we'll be back in *** moment. What drives me crazy the most. Is that all the work. I do, by the grace of God. Didn't save my grandson. Welcome back. I'm Curtis Fuller. I'm here with Pastor Jackie Jackson, someone I've known for well over 30 years, and, um, we're here talking about something unfortunately we've had to talk about, uh, far too often, and that is gun violence. We talked about your your son's case, Jackie Jackson Jr. the, the 2nd, and so now his son Jackie Jackson the 3rd. Sally was murdered. In the summer of 2024 down on the banks at the banks. That case is still unsolved. No one has come forward to say I saw this or I, I know the person. The night of, so that was June 22nd, incidentally 6 months, just four days short of 6 months from when his dad was shot. Thank God my son, Jackie lived, um. Down on the banks, should he have been down there at the time because this happened around 20 in the morning, 16 years old, no, he shouldn't have been down there, but you know I was 16 once maybe twice. I'm not sure, um, there's *** lot of places I shouldn't have been, but that doesn't mean you should be murdered and this happened over *** bottle of water. So that night this happened at that store that's across the street from the Freedom Center, um, so there were people there obviously they saw but. There's some things I can't say information that I do know, so you know I can't, I can't talk about that. But we're still waiting, we're still waiting. It seems like. Man, it seems like forever. I know it's not. I know in the, in the, in the large scheme of things, and the large, when when I I mentioned before, so many families, so many people are waiting for justice or waiting just to hear about an arrest. So I know we're not. But it's my, it's my grandson. And so for me, the pain of that knowing that he was murdered *** month before his birthday. Six months after his father was shot, incidentally, remember Jackie was Jackie the 2nd was shot. That was the 2nd time he was shot in his life. So now waiting, wanting this to be no longer unsolved, wanting them to find the individual. I know that's easier said than done. I'm not in the room, so I don't, I, I'm how, how that's working, I don't know, but. Every day is something that I think about. I don't go down there too often, but I've got to go this weekend and that's gonna be in my mind and, and. The pain of it. That we have so many of our young. Young people And I'm young and young black men and women. Dying from violence, from gun violence, also suicide, which doesn't get talked *** lot about, but in my son's case it's from murder. Dying from murder, dying because they're being shot and killed, oftentimes by their peers. Oh, I can't even begin to tell you that anger, yeah, there's pain, but then there's that anger inside of me, man. Yeah, yeah, no, I, I know, and. Um, I can only. Imagine because this story and we've told it before, but I want people who might not know, you know, this starts when you're *** 10 year old kid you get shot. Um, and, uh, and then you've had several family members either. Shot and killed or injured. Um, 11, I mean 10 in the last 11 years, murdered, 9 in the last 11 years wounded by gun violence. Um. I, I don't, I don't know how you reconcile all of that in your head. Why I know you have, have had to ask the question, why me, why our family. Um, but I wanna take *** break. I want you to pause here and take *** break. And talk to people who are dealing with similar situations because they go through *** child being shot, *** grandchild, uh, maybe being killed, and what help is out there for them? What can you say to them directly? we'll we'll take *** break and then we'll come back and finish that discussion back in *** moment. Welcome back everyone talking to Pastor Jackie Jackson probably um hearing uh *** raw emotion from you that I don't hear that often, as I said earlier we've known each other *** long time and um you've always seemed to um. Be able to separate your own pain with what's happening in the community and and to know what you're what you've gone through in your own family to still go out to help other families has always been amazing to me and many others. Uh, what do you say to that family, that mother, that father who, um, is struggling because their case hasn't been solved, um. And that's that's *** part of this that isn't talked about enough, the trauma that just continues that cycle and then it runs into then it becomes generational. What do you say to them? First, I would say, to thine own self. Be true. Listen. Sometimes you have to, and, and this it seems hard, but sometimes you have to embrace the situation that you're in. Take *** break if you need to, but you've got to embrace it, right? Trauma. Affects us in so many different ways. It hits us in so many different ways um you know I I work with every town for gun safety and we do *** lot of things around trauma and form so I would say to parents, grandparents, um, siblings, neighbors, whoever this is affecting. One, embrace that feeling that you have. It's OK to be upset sometimes what happens with me when this happens? First my mind goes and, and this is maybe the wrong phrase, but I, I'm, I don't feel like sitting here trying to come up with the right one. Sometimes my mind flips business. OK, what happened? What do we need to do? Who needs to be called? What do we need to do for you? What are the next steps that need to be taken care of? Everybody's not gonna flip that way and even though I do that and you talk about how I, I pushed past. It was *** uh group, Mary Mary, and I forget the name of that song, but it said, you don't, you know, basically you don't see me when I go home and I hit my knees. So When it initially happens, I flip to my mind goes, OK, what are the next steps then when the emotional sets in your emotions are gonna hit you and that's OK. You may cry, scream. It's OK to do that that that first, as long as you're not hurting someone, that first impulse, whatever it is, throw something, lay on the ground, whatever you need to do, but then from there. You if you if you continue to stay or or you continue to let trauma go unchecked, then you get yourself in *** bad situation and especially if you don't if they don't know who the shooter was um so it's unsolved and you may feel like they're not doing anything. And probably every person you see walking down the street could be the person. think that could be the person or or if you're hearing so many people talking, right, there's gonna, you're gonna hear *** bunch of different stories from people. Oh, it was Jimmy, oh it was Teresa, oh, I heard from my best friend's cousin's brother-in-law who lives down the street from my niece that it was sometimes you gotta block out the noise, you've got to think about you, your family, you've got to think about getting some help, especially black men. Part of, part of what I do with my work is we are talking about men in general and how we don't embrace or deal with our trauma. Right, and, and we were taught not to do that as little boys walk it off, be *** man, suck it up, man don't cry, get over it. So we don't handle that trauma. There are, there are therapists that can help you through that trauma. It's resilience we wanna have we've got to get to resilience and one of the way of getting to resilience is help. So there here in Cincinnati, you know Karen Ramsey. With um Cincinnati police victims advocate that is one person I've worked with Karen when we when I was on the community outreach advocates on the street. She's been amazing for me at times when my family has been affected by gun violence. She is somebody that people need to reach out to to talk to her. She has resources you need, you need *** network. Of people, right, it's great call your pastor or your rabbi or your imam or or or whoever you call if you're *** person of faith, call your friends, but get some help get some professional help if it's just one visit to kinda help you kinda help you gather all these things and get *** and and get get get *** *** *** more focused perspective every time for gun safety we. Have I work in the survivor network. We're there for you. If, if you need help, if you've been affected by gun violence, we're there to help survivors through that process. We do trainings on trauma. Resilience, trauma, grief and resilience understanding them and we do *** deep dive into it we're not therapists and it's not *** therapy session, but it is so that people Bible say my people perish for lack of knowledge. So listen, families, if you're dealing with this, get some help, embrace where you are, know that it's OK to be angry, mad, cry. But after you get that anger and mad and cry. Get some help. Stay on the cuts with the detectives. You gotta stay in touch with the detectives. You gotta talk to them. As much as I would like my grandson's case to be the most important case in the world, and it is to us. They have many cases of families who feel their loved one is the most important, so I can't assume that 24 hours *** day that detective is thinking about my grandson. I may be, so that means I need to be in contact with that detective from time to time. Is there something? Is there any piece you can give me? And last understanding that what they know. And what they tell you are gonna be different and it may sound mean. But it's because sometimes it's protecting the integrity of that case, sometimes it's because they ain't got nothing, but sometimes it's protecting the inte I don't know if that answered your question, but that's it, um. Uh, I'm gonna take *** final break and then we'll have *** couple more minutes. I, you've mentioned every town *** couple of times, and I want people to know *** little bit more about that, how they can, they can get more information on that long term. OK, we'll be back in *** moment. Here again, Pastor Jackie Jackson, you're always kind to to share your story because I know it helps others you've referenced the the project every time. I just wanna make sure people can get in contact. It's *** big website available. To find out more about this uh national project, right, yeah. Everytown for Gun Safety is the largest gun violence prevention or um advocacy organization in the United States, 11 million strong, um, and then, you know, moms demand action for gun sense in America. You see them in the red t-shirts. They're up under the umbrella of every town. Within every town for gun safety and where I work is in the survivor network and if that name that names tell you we're everything about survivors working with them trying to connect them as much as we can we're not *** direct resource organization but we do try to help direct people there. I mentioned the, the, um. The grief support, um, we have kicking it with survivor men which is for men to get together in *** space with just men to have that discussion where we don't feel the vulnerability of *** woman being in the room um and if you have been touched by gun violence, you're *** survivor, you want more information you can text 6 you could. Text survivor 6 to 64433, the word survivor to 64433, you'll get an immediate response to the email someone will get back in touch with you and get you connected and then from there can find out what you need and and what we may be able to do for you. As we were just starting this year, I mean, it's it feels like it's moving very fast, but we're still in the early part of of this year we we have about *** minute or so left, um. And as the summer comes, I mean, we this people are still frustrated. We have the things out in Lincoln Heights, the, the political climate in the country, um, it's tough and, and as you said, people have to get seek some help if they're feeling that inside bubbling up inside you. And, and that's important, um, I, I'm listening to the news this morning and interviewing, they were interviewing I forget who it was, the pastor, um, the mayor, and within that interview they talked about people of Lincoln Heights is also saying they want some counseling for the children and. And the residents and that's something that usually gets sometimes really gets skipped in black communities where there's *** *** *** outpouring or overall counseling being set up to counsel those residents and especially our babies, our babies see so much violence so much hate. Counseling is so important and for people in Lincoln Heights I hope that's one of the things they're demanding and I hope that's something that they get because so many people and especially those babies they're gonna need it. Your voice is important you know that and I, I, I always, as I've said earlier I appreciate. Not just coming on here, but I, I appreciate your voice in the community for *** long time. All right, you as well. Well, that does it for the program today. Thanks for joining us. I'll see you next time for another edition of Less Toxins. Until then. Have *** good day and *** better day tomorrow.